dnd on Webb’s GI Bill

On 30 June 2008 President Bush signed the Webb GI Bill into law. Proponents of the bill claim that we owe these benefits to vets and that it will improve recruitment. Opponents of the bill claim that it will diminish retention, as recruits will leave the service to attend school as soon as their enlistment ends.

It’s easy to see the arguments on both sides. I’m not quite sure about the retention argument. Military life is something one enjoys or does not. Sticking it out solely for benefits might not make for the most motivated troops. Both arguments may be relevant, but they are not an issue for me. Education is.

Many attribute the great growth in the economy following WWII to the GI Bill. Never in the nation’s history had so many been so educated. The results were dramatic. We now face competition in a global economy. We face a worldwide energy crisis. To meet these challenges it’s imperative that we provide for an educated workforce. The Webb GI Bill is a good place to start.

http://www.gibill2008.org/

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128 Comments

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128 responses to “dnd on Webb’s GI Bill

  1. dog's eye view

    Good post. Education should be the new civil rights, and who better to get an extra shot at it than those who put themselves in harm’s way for us?

    Sheer enlightened self-interest, as dnd points out.

  2. dnd you make a great point, and one that I have never thought about, just how much the country as a whole benefits from GI bills of the past and how much we gain by having a well educated vet population. A well educated population at large for that matter, something the repugs just don’t get!

  3. Horsedooty

    nice work! I used the old GI Bill to go to college and if truth be known, it allowed me to delay going into the work economy for several years. My college days in art school were some of the best years of my life. I learned a lot and met many varied and different people that I would have never had the opportunity to experience without said bill.

    ¡yo soy Horsedooty!

  4. Chef Sheila

    Good Dnd,

    You’ve really thought about this one. I am a recipient too. If it wasn’t for all the educational benefits of the Armed Forces I wouldn’t be where I am today. I would never have had the careers I’ve been blessed with and that was the Vietnam GI Bill.

    Since then the one incentive for serving your country has been ravaged. The New GI Bill is just a pittence of all this is owed to this generation of VETS

    McCain’s dismissal is unbelievable and probably lost him votes.

  5. Chef Sheila

    BTW Dnd and others,

    The New GI Bill would not diminish the ranks of Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines. Mistreating them will.

    When you are fighting a war and you most likely have a family. You want to know you and your family will be taken care of. If you are not, you will get out.

    But let us not forget the unemployment rate, the economy, and all. There will always be a good manning level in the military as long as the economy is tanking for the middle class. and the poor.

  6. dnd

    Good points Shelia. I think high paying companies like Blackwater and Halliburton do more to the decline in retention rates than the opportunity to continue one’s education.

    I keep hearing about the lowering of standards to enlistment. The promise of being able to continue one’s education, where before it would not be possible, will ensure a higher quality on enlistees.

    And I thought it pusillanimous of McCain not to vote on the bill.

  7. Also aren’t there just as many studies that show the expanded education benefit will drive up enlistment? I know McCain’s argument was that giving benefits “too early” would cause people not to re-up.

  8. dog's eye view

    Outsourcing to Blackwell and Halliburton is pretty short-sighted, IMHO. Opens up an avenue for conflicted loyalties and does not ensure contractors aid our overall mission.

    The cost of better educating and caring for paid US military, even with retirement pension benefits, might be looked at as a way of shoring up the American middle class and giving young people a leg up (greater opportunities for social mobility in the military than civilian world, in some cases).

    Maybe time to review the “cost savings.” Bottom line thinking does not always enable the greatest good to society.

  9. Chef Sheila

    My Wise old Pops had been through the end of WWII, The Korean, and Vietnam. As we were bracing for this one, he and I had a conversation….of many as “Old Vets” would do… ;0)

    The gist of the conversation was about the “Quality” of Military Personell and how much difference in Quality we had at the beginning.

    He said,
    “Sheila, in every war we have been in, we start out with “quality personell”, They get killed and the cream rises to the top.” The cream of the US Military is the poor boy down the street who had to fight for their supper.” They all ready know the ropes, plus you give them three squares and a way to have a family and these guys will become the best men of all.” The Lifers and the ones that are your Best.”

    He was talking about himself and every other teacher or Lawyer that got their start in the Military.

    We will never lose good quality as we build it in the Military.

  10. dnd

    Of topic, but the more I look at Pickens Plan, the better I like it. I’m not sure about power distribution issues and maintenance issues, but it sure looks good. And if economies of scale and technology make turbines cheaper, think of the markets we could sell into (e.g., China).

    I sure hope the next president takes this seriously.

    http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/

  11. Chef Sheila

    Did you see his commercial on MSNBC just now. It was very nice….so he’s taking his plan to the people nationally if he’s on cable.

  12. Horsedooty

    I don’t know too much about wind power but people smarter than me like it. It is certainly a start at weening the US off foreign oil. If wind power can be made to replace a lot of things oil does that would go a long way toward that goal. We now have a lot of city vehicles in the DFW area that have been converted to NGas. Buses and the like. Fort Worth is sitting right on top of a natural gas field called the “Barnett Shale” Some say they drilling could go on for 20 years or more.

    ¡yo soy Horsedooty!

  13. It’s hard as hell for me to trust T. Boone, but lets hope his efforts here are sincere.

  14. dnd

    “Rest assured: Chicken tenders and doughnuts will make appearances at the Democratic National Convention.”

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9822064

    Whew! That’s a relief. But trust me, lotsa conventioneers will be making the trek to the Five Points neighborhood for the soul food.

  15. Lurking with DSL just FYI, and reading the thread.

    I’m monitoring for the Pentagon.

  16. Steve were you on dialup before switching to dsl?

  17. Meanwhile listening to Biden on C-Span3 making the point that we need to “engage Iran” diplomatically. Me thinks he’s auditoning for something….

  18. Yes, Brian, and now my computer is so fast I read what you just typed it before you typed it.

  19. Hell, what i just typed was on before i posted it!

  20. Welcome to the wonderful world of 24/7 online broadband, it will change your life! LOL

  21. Yup, high time i get out of the stone age.

  22. just not having to listen to the sound of dialup connecting is worth it!

  23. very cool, we were in awe at Youtube alone

  24. haha, wait till you start downloading music!

  25. already started doing that with some Dashboard Confessional

  26. Sorry about hijacking the thread. Now I’m off for more foolishness.

  27. nothing to apologize for!

  28. dnd

    Hip,
    Getting broadband is certainly something to get excited about. Hell, I remember back in the day when I was happy to have a 1200 baud modem 😉

  29. the “good old days” of 1200 baud!

  30. dnd

    Oh great. Now the FDA is reporting that raw jalapeno and serrano peppers may be responsible for the latest salmonella outbreak. Life with serranos isn’t a life worth living…

  31. Chef Sheila

    Sounds to me like Habenaros are the only way now….of course there is always a hit of 7/11 nachos piled high with melted cheese whiz and mounds of pickled Jalipenos….

  32. dnd

    Shelia,
    Fortunately, we chile-heads have a lot more varieties to choose from. But the best use of pickled jalapenos is not 7-11 nachos. It’s pickled eggs. From a recipe my Aunt Lena taught me: dump a bunch of pickled jalapenos in a big jar with hard cooked eggs and cover with vinegar. Put them in the fridge. The longer they sit, the hotter they get. I usually opt for a month.

    They go great with beer and football.

  33. Chef Sheila

    mmmmmmm…..I’ll have to try that one. I’m needen a hit of hot lately…….and I can’t do such a horrible artery clogging delight anymore….

  34. “dump a bunch of pickled jalapenos in a big jar with hard cooked eggs and cover with vinegar. Put them in the fridge. The longer they sit, the hotter they get. I usually opt for a month.”

    What no pickled pigs feet to go with it?

  35. Chef Sheila

    Terry McCaliff,

    “We don’t want to embarrass the Nominee”. “We don’t want a role call in the convention”.

    Amen

  36. Yea I’m beginning to feel less pissy about Terry.

  37. dnd

    “What no pickled pigs feet to go with it?”

    Just trying to keep it kosher for you. But would be good wrapped in proscuitta or capacole.

  38. New Yawkers don’t eat no pickled eggs, and we avoid places with names like “dew drop inn”

  39. Chef Sheila

    HA! I saw a jar of pickled eggs in a little tavern near Spanish harlem Two years ago!!! HA HA!

  40. Chef Sheila

    I’m sorry, my dear sweet dnd….proscuitto is not an appetizing pairing with pickled eggs….

  41. Did you find out how long they had been sitting there Sheila?

  42. Chef Sheila

    LOL Honestly, after living in a UK where they are in abundence? I don’t touch any pickled eggs in jars anymore. Especially in the US and on Manhattan ;0)

  43. dnd

    Brian,
    We westerners avoid places like McSorley’s Old Ale House where they serve Limburger on soda crackers with onions and mustard, and the place hasn’t been cleaned since WWII and they didn’t admit women until 1970.

  44. Chef Sheila

    The Name “McSorely” doesn’t give a great picture either…

  45. dnd you’re not going to get an argument from me regarding McSorley’s, I don’t even like walking by the place for the stink!

  46. dnd

    Shelia,
    Proscuitta goes with everything, especially on an antipasti plate.

    For you non-New Yawkers, McSorley’s is a bar in the East Village. Been there since 1854. And yes, I’ve been there. Several times 😉

  47. And hasn’t been cleaned since 1855

  48. Chef Sheila

    Dnd,

    A reguler hard boiled egg I personally find is good with harboiled eggs. However the thought of a jalepino pickled egg and proscuito ham doesn’t do anything for me.

    So what would you call this dish? being Mexican and Italian Antipasto ?

    You football guys can eat to your hearts content though. ;0)

  49. A reguler hard boiled egg I personally find is good with harboiled eggs.

    huh?

  50. Chef Sheila

    Woops “A regular hardboiled egg is good would procuito….”

  51. Chef Sheila

    shhhhhh…..trying to come down after cleaning out the refrigerator, making fresh peach crisp, walking the dogs, making lunch and walking for myself.

    I can’t think and do all of that do…..sheesh

  52. Youtube is unreal—Rickie Havens, Dick Nixon, The Replacements, Springsteen, Dave Chapelle, Marvin Gaye and lots of just plain stupid stuff—-God i am glad i did this.

    Saw earlier today that Obama is up on McCain in Missouri by 5.

  53. You mean you can’t bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan?

  54. Chef Sheila

    Would like to see Missouri in double digits before the convention. but after the convention would be fine too.

  55. Chef Sheila

    Oh yea….I can do that, but I can’t chew gum…..no way…

  56. dnd

    Shelia,
    Forget the proscuito. I was just responding to Brian.

    BTW, my Aunt Lena was Italian (Abruzzi). One of the greatest cooks I’ve ever known. And one of the kindest and most generous too.

  57. Chef Sheila

    And I was kidding with you dnd….get with the program..

    You Aunt Lena sould like someone I would have loved to have a conversation with.

  58. Cool that you’re having such a good time Steve, I remember when I first got broadband it was definitely a life changing experience!

    (dude the amount of free porn on the web is awesome, LOL)

  59. Chef Sheila

    BTW,

    I hate to name drop, but there is or was an air force base in Teramo? its in the Abruzzo region. Had THE BEST sparkling wines I have eve had the privilage of drinking….wow! Wish we could get them there. But the vinyards there are private and limited so they just concentrate on the vintages. They don’t put the preservatives in and so don’t export.

    Your Aunt comes from a lovely region with wonderful people.

  60. Horsedooty

    Steve,

    Now that you know about DSL you can never go back to dialup.

    ¡yo soy Horsedooty!

  61. Chef Sheila

    So what do you think the problem with Missouri is? is it that red a state. I have honestly NOT paid attention until this primary and because of McCaskil.

  62. I think the fact that McSame is only 5 points ahead is amazing news. Just wait till Obama actually starts campaigning there!

  63. dnd

    I think what will be interesting is after the conventions, when we know who the veeps are and the serious campaigning gets under way, and the non-political junkies start paying attention.

  64. I can’t wait to see the effect that big show in mile high will have on the polls, the repug convention will look like a bad wake in comparison.

  65. Chef Sheila

    Its such an important race, I will be biting my nails this time. I wish i could feel relaxed about like years past, but there is so much at stake. The right wing can wreak effective havoc and Obama and campaign can take something for granted and slip an edge to them.

    Well, only 4 months.

  66. dnd

    Brian,
    I think you’re right that the big show at Mile High will be huge. My speculations:
    Obama co-chair, former Denver Mayor and Sec of Transportation and Energy under Clinton, Federico Pena will surely be front and center, courting the Hispanic vote, as will Bill Richardson.
    Patricia Schroeder, first woman from Colorado to run for president will be featured , as will Hillary. We here in the west gave women the right to vote long before it became federal law.

  67. Chef Sheila

    hey! You talkin ta me? ;0)

  68. Nope, just a few others who we’ve all agreed shall remain nameless.
    😆

  69. Chef Sheila

    Interesting response.

    Obama Responds to FISA Protest on His Web Site

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/obama-responds-to-fisa-protest-on-his-web-site/

    The exclusivity provision makes it clear to any President or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court. In a dangerous world, government must have the authority to collect the intelligence we need to protect the American people. But in a free society, that authority cannot be unlimited. As I’ve said many times, an independent monitor must watch the watchers to prevent abuses and to protect the civil liberties of the American people. This compromise law assures that the FISA court has that responsibility

  70. Chef Sheila

    Edwards told NPR that he would welcome the VP slot? Wow…

  71. Sweet, but I thought Biden was the flavor of the week.

  72. Chef Sheila

    I love Biden, But I would throw him over for Edwards….I think…so many choices, so little time….

  73. Looks like Craig’s blog is down.

  74. Chef Sheila

    Well….All are welcome ;0)

  75. Be careful what you wish for Sheila!

  76. Chef Sheila

    I think the atmosphere is good for us. I’m not sure if they are ready though 🙂

  77. Chef Sheila

    Actually, I have to get ready for dinner. Lamb Loin chops, Brown Rice Pilaf, and Stuffed Chayote, with Peach and Raspberry Crisp.

    If I ate everything I cooked, I’d be way too over weight instead of how i look now. I just don’t understand how others can do it. but I’m glad to do it.

    have a nice evening friends.

  78. sturgeone

    okay…..wha’d you guys do to craig’s blog?

  79. sturgeone

    (Just kiddiing, lads and lasses……..)

  80. be afraid, you know nothing of the powers of the BackChannel Group!

  81. Maybe it was a SQL injection attack from China?

  82. Actually it strikes me as a classic case of POD

  83. Obama getting worn down, he better take care of himself…says he lost like 7 pounds…

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-weary9-2008jul09,0,6269863.story

  84. I could stand to lose 20, ok 30, maybe I should run for office!

  85. I’m working on it…..the winter killed me last year, I got so lazy….

    How can you be heavy in NYC? ….don’t they kick you out of Manhattan for that?

  86. Chef Sheila

    Hey! Sturg! Fishman. Good to see you. Are you lonely?

    Old Friends here!

  87. Chef Sheila

    >>>>>Creeping back toward the stove>>>>

  88. UB you’ll like my piece for tomorrow, it’s about McCain’s most recent and IMO amazingly offensive TV commercial.

  89. Wow craig is still down, I hope no one is going into withdrawal.

  90. I don’t like that McCain ad with the Woodstock-like crowd in it. It’s just not accurate…..and it totally discounts what that movement was about. It’s like he is saying he was “better” than the rest of America’s youth ( in 1960 or so – almost 50 years ago)….because his was in the military….so twisted…..when that war was just another huge quagmire.

    Is he going after the “dead” vote ?

  91. Good – I look forward to reading it.

  92. “Is he going after the “dead” vote ?”

    His natural constituency.

  93. Now here’s a republican I’d really like to see caught in a sex act in an airport men’s room, Brad Blakemen.

    What a creep!

  94. They even look alike… : )

    ps: when I am dead I will look like a pile of white chalk ashes….I did a report (in HS) I have seen my future…..

  95. Does politics just appeal to creeps or is it they they are the one creepy enough to survive???

  96. the Darwin effect in Politics

  97. the latter, not the former.

  98. BTW regarding McCain’s commercial, do you feel the way I do, that now seeing images of his war service kind of gives the ad the same visual feel the swift boat ads had in 2004?

  99. Kathy

    Brain- my thought about the McCain ad was, where are the women? It is almost totally images of men- walking down the halls with him, shaking hands, etc.

  100. yes, and also, I can’t believe showing vintage footage in B&W will impress anyone under the age of 40….it looks like a history class you failed in high school because you were sleeping……

    It’s so last century…..oh yeah….this guy is definitely living in the past.

    You see McCain as a young guy, then as he is now…what did he do in between?

  101. Kathy

    I have occasion to listen to Limbo somedays- he was really pushing the Jimmy Cater meme- funny, that would exactly appeal to whom? I could not vote for Jimmy Carter- my first vote was for Mondale.

  102. a mere child kathy, my very first vote was for Carter in ’76. I hadn’t noticed the lack of females in the ad, glad you picked up on it.

  103. I can’t help but feeling, especially after seeing the ad that his Iraq policy is so driven by his Vietnam experience.

  104. And so much resentment of the peace movement.

  105. Which ad are you talking about?

    link?

    McCain doesn’t have nice names for women.

  106. I saw it on TV, I thought it was much more interesting what his son said!

  107. it’s a long time until November – they better hold it together.

  108. Chef Sheila

    Well good people. Good to see at least sturg’s moniker. ;0)

    Sorry to hear your neighborhood took a dive for a while. Hope its back ;0)

  109. Good morning troops-

    McCain in Michigan today, Obama in NY, and I am sure Obama’s trip is a $$$ raiser.

  110. Someone is up late cruising the broadband supper highway!

  111. Chef Sheila

    Morning Folks, Still struggling with East Coast Time Clock and don’t know if I want to correct it any more. I like getting up and contemplating, coffee, and blogging.

    A Short, Brieft, Terse, Snide Thank You Note to the Reverend Jesse Jackson

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/07/a-short-brieft-terse-snide-tha.php

    Dear Jesse:

    I hear you have an “issue” with Senator Barack Obama. I hear you think he’s “talking down” to black people. I hear you plan to “cut his nuts off.”

    Do that and somebody may bust a cap in yo’ azz.

  112. Chef Sheila

    David Horsey on the state of the Ecomony. Not funny and very clever.

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1788

  113. dnd

    A lot of people think Jackson “talks down” to Blacks.
    A lot of people think Jackson prefers being on the stage than in the audience.

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