What If? by dnd

Sarah Palin told Charlie Gibson that she thinks Obama should’ve picked Hillary for veep, and that she believes he now regrets it. Putting aside the utter transparency of this statement to play on the emotions of the Hillary supporters is a sleazy effort to get support for McCain/Palin, and the inherent sexism, this does beg the question: what if Obama had picked Hillary?

There are thousands of responses to that question, but since Palin brought it up, it made me wonder about McCain’s veep pick. Had Obama selected Hillary, would Palin even be on the McCain ticket? Since large numbers of the right viscerally hate all things Clinton, a Hillary pick may have energized the Republican base to the same degree the Palin pick has. Possibly more. And while the Palin obsession may wane, the right’s vitriol towards Hillary wouldn’t.

Certainly the press would love a Hillary vs. Sarah fight. It would dominate the coverage. But would it be in McCain’s best interest?

Would McCain picked somebody safe, say Tom Ridge? That’d help reel in Pennsylvania. How about Mitt Romney to help with Michigan? Or that youngster, Gov. Bobby Jindal? His performance during hurricane Gustav and now with hurricane Ike shows he’s a very competent, hands-on governor. Or how about his ol’ buddy Joe Lieberman? That’d be a “maverick” pick.

What would McCain do if Obama picked Hillary?



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105 responses to “What If? by dnd

  1. Well I’m not sure who he would have picked, but I do know who he wouldn’t have picked, it wouldn’t have been Lieberman, the maverick didn’t have the stones to stand up to his base. Also it would have never been Jindal, I think Jindal was never a serious contender, just window dressing to prove the party aren’t really racist, which of course they are!

  2. McCASKILL TO STEPHANOPOULOS: McCain’s age, melanoma are “a reality…we have to face”


  3. dog's eye view

    Bringing forward dnd’s comment on Greenspan and Fiorina (as McCain surrogate), posted after Brian put up new thread:

    BY DND:

    dnd, on September 14th, 2008 at 10:58 am Said:

    McCaskill/Firoina cat fight on This Week. Immediately following that, Greenspan talking about the financial crisis.
    Great irony having Greenspan talk of the failures in the financial arena, and Firoina, a failed, reviled chief of HP, that was booted by the board.
    I really can’t figure out why McCain has a failure like Fiorina speaking for him.

  4. chefsheila

    May i break in and not that for the first time in my ten years of paying attention to Dem Politics….shock of shocks, on Face the Nation the ladies are voicing DEM Talking Points…….I’m enthused!

  5. chefsheila

    Because Fiorina is an expert on Republican Economy crap (and I say Crap) McCain knows nothing about the economy…..can you imagine Fiorina the Secretary of Treasury, Labor…….AHHHHHH!!!

  6. dnd

    Thanks dog. And in that vein, Giuliani on MTP. Is there any more sleazy, lying, philandering, opportunist than Brian’s former mayor? Why would the McCain campaign let that guy say anything?

  7. chefsheila

    Wasserman-Schultz is a better Pitbull than Schumer ever thought of being. Sorry Brian.

  8. dnd

    Fiorina knows nothing about the economy either. Business people are rarely economists. They have a biased view of the economy. Plus she’s a loser! And not a nice person!

    “can you imagine Fiorina the Secretary of Treasury, Labor”

    Don’t even joke like that!

  9. I’m not a Schumer fan. Where did you ever get the idea I was?

  10. dnd

    My favorite curmudgeon, Ed Quillen, on the “change” candidate:

    “In need of some guidance to understand this weird election season, I called my favorite inside source, Ananias Ziegler, media relations director of the Committee That Really Runs America. My first question was whether any Republicans are running for the presidency and vice presidency this year. ”


  11. chefsheila

    If Hillary had been VP I soundly dispute the easy ride that CLinton would have given the ticket.

    Lets just face this; Rove is on the Campaign. Hillary would have made things AS BAD as the Palin pick is making this for US.

    With all her news about how much vetting, She and Bill are villains in the Republican party. They are evil personified. They REPUGS wanted Hillary because it would have been smooth sailing for them.

    I am positive that Palin is ROVE’s choice and She was picked for her sweet smile, cookie cutter Pentacostal Life, and her ability to lie and cheat beneath all of this.

    Lets face it. We knew it was coming. We know we have a winning group on the campaign.

    They are now going to earn the BIG BUCKS.

  12. chefsheila

    dnd, My point exactly. Whatever gave anyone the thought that McCain really knows what he is doing with Economy and why Fiorina has been talking based on her background.

    Not to say that ANYONE is paying attention to her failures.

    Brian, get more coffee. I was teasing…. lol

  13. Make me some coffee sheila, then iron my shirt!


  14. chefsheila

    Throws Brick and Brians Head…>>>>>>I Splat!

  15. chefsheila

    watching This Week. I just want to slap Fiorina. She rubs me wrong…..Oops! I’m using my emotions for this one. ;0)

  16. chefsheila

    AT Brian’s head…. lol More Coffee Please.

    “Sarah Palin is the Earmark Queen”

  17. Fiorina is a nightmare, and shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near govt.

  18. chefsheila

    Fiorina is a nightmare. She is a bald faced liar and is trying to demonize the Democratic Party so that women “Flock to the party”. Her words

  19. chefsheila

    Death Spiral in the stockmarket? Oh Great!

  20. chefsheila

    Greenspan is not making me feel secure. But at least he’s being honest.

  21. dnd

    “Greenspan is not making me feel secure. But at least he’s being honest.”

    At least he’s being coherent 😉 I usually can’t make heads or tails of what he’s saying.

  22. The public holds Greenspan in high regard, the fact that he’s come out against McBush’s tax plan is a good thing!

  23. chefsheila

    ok ok, that was more coherent too. ;0)

  24. chefsheila

    This Weeks Roundtable is really showing the divide. Age and Class and Ideology. Great round table this week

  25. chefsheila

    Obama is the 1st and Biden is the 3rd most liberal member in the senate? Now I’ve heard everything…..

  26. chefsheila

    Ok, just about time for me to stop having a conversation with myself. ;0)

  27. chefsheila

    wow, Out of 17 refineries in the Gulf, 14 are not operational. 3 oil rigs are adrift. And of course Gas Shortages are likely.

    That should give the average person pause on whether of not off shore drilling is actually wise…..

  28. Looks like the 527s are stepping up to the plate, it’s a good thing.

  29. chefsheila

    Did you see any? I gave a smidgen to Moveon when they announced that they were going to release one.

  30. I don’t live in a battle ground state Sheila. Everything I’ve seen is on the net and I’ve posted it here.

  31. chefsheila

    GOOD! Its about time.

  32. chefsheila

    Well…..sorry I asked……

  33. Karolenna

    I don’t believe that Clinton as the VP would have picked up many extra voters if any. If my memory is correct early on her disapproval numbers among ALL voters was at 49%. That probably could have improved, but I don’t think it would have with the independents or R’s who will be voting for Obama.

  34. Karolenna

    Greenspan talking about McCain tax cuts in today’s Dispatch.

    McCain tax cuts simply too pricey, Greenspan says
    Ex-Fed chief cites tie-in with spending
    Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:33 AM


  35. dnd

    “3 oil rigs are adrift.” It would be interesting to see what the cost to the oil companies is from this storm.

    And I agree, this “drill baby drill” chant seems kinda stupid in the wake of Ike.

  36. Karolenna

    Thank God for my daughter because she and her husband are part of a big group of NASCAR fans and she still has a clear optimism to try to understand all points of view. Just a few minutes ago we were talking about the thinking mentality of some of these people, although good people, but we think some have misguided beliefs. That is what I’m afraid is coming through with the false advertising that McCain is putting on television now. I’m sure it is more prevalent here in Ohio and other swing states than others.

    There are just so many people who believe this stuff. Even if you watched The View video clips I posted on Friday, McCain is on there saying that Obama clearly meant to say he was referring to Palin with his “lipstick on a pig” comment. He is out and out lying. He knows better. Wonder what it feels like to have sold your soul to the devil to win the presidency.


  37. dog's eye view

    I wonder if the press might do their job, in between reporting on hurricanes and god forbid Paris Hilton gets arrested again or goes missing.

    They’ve got to be concerned about McCain’s being a fool or playing them for fools.

    Also, even if some highly paid media owners and correspondents pay more in personal and corporate taxes, the underlying economy and opportunities will be richer for all under an Obama administration. They are bound to do better, even if they get pinched with a moderate tax increase.

    Tick tick tick on Lehman Brothers, etc. McCain is not known for his economic prowess, and it’s not Palin’s strong suit either.

    Time to redeem themselves by reporting accurately rather than “objectively.”

  38. Here’s the question I want to see asked at one of the debates. “Senator McCain in light of the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the mortgage market do you still support the privatazion of Social Security?”

  39. Stambaugh, a former Anchorage police captain who once supervised Monegan, was hired as Wasilla’s first police chief in 1993 and created the town’s small police force, says former Wasilla mayor John Stein. But weeks after Palin beat Stein in 1996, she expressed displeasure with the chief. One big issue, Stambaugh said, was that he and other police chiefs had opposed a state-legislature bill to permit concealed weapons in schools and bars, which Stambaugh called “craziness.” But Palin, elected with backing from the National Rifle Association, which lobbied for the bill, told him she was “not happy” with his position, and that the NRA wanted him fired, says Stambaugh. Palin told him he “shouldn’t have done that,” Stambaugh told NEWSWEEK. (Palin denied in a deposition that the NRA contacted her about the weapons bill.)


  40. dog's eye view

    am sure someone else posted earlier, but here’s last night’s SNL opening clip with Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton. Really well written. via balloon juice


  41. dog's eye view

    from James Fallows’ blog: a “dispatch” from retired Pentagon analyst/reformer Chuck Spinney (currently living on a sailboat in the Mediterranean) on Obama’s giving McCain and McCain’s lies enough rope to hang the GOP candidate:

    Spinney writes:
    I am beginning to sense that McCain behavior is destroying himself and that Obama has the good sense or instinct to take a deep step back and let McCain dig a hole so deep he can not get out.

    After all, McCain has spent years branding himself as a straight talker of truth who puts country ahead of self … it was always a phony image, but now he is aggressively destroying that brand name and replacing it with the opposite Rovian brand. This is something we have seen all too often — a man who will do anything and say anything to get elected, to include selecting someone for vice president who is obviously not qualified to be President, even though he would be the oldest person ever to be elected President, and is a cancer survivor to boot, with a heart condition and an abused body (from torture), and therefore, actuarially the most likely President in history to die in office, if elected.

    Maybe Obama’s behavior is akin to subtly waving the red cape to lure McCain into reinforcing the rebranding operation. I think Obama did a capejob on Hillary, and she ended up up with the immoral alternative of either having to destroy the democratic party inorder to win its nomination or quitting. I think (hope?) Obama is doing a similar thing with McCain, and McCain is walking into the trap.

    In the end, this election is a battle that takes place within an overarching moral context, and as Boyd showed, you can not isolate your opponent in moral warfare (i.e., the game of surfacing mismatches in three legs of the triangle connecting what your opponent says is and what he really is and the world he has to deal with).*

    Your opponent has to morally isolate himself, and he does that by destroying legs of the moral triangle, and in so doing, exhibits behavior that promotes his own well being by violating the codes of conduct or standards of behavior he professes to uphold and others expect him to uphold.

    I have this vague sense that Obama’s goal (maybe instinct is a better word) may be to create an atmosphere (perhaps by looking weak, iter alia) that encourages McCain to reinforce this self destructive behavior and thereby make his hypocrisy obvious to a majority of the undecided voters. But then maybe I am seeing visions in cloud formations.


  42. dog's eye view

    Sponsor or house out of state volunteers willing to work a swing state.


    interesting idea; put together by Obama fans/activists; not formally associated with the campaign but what a good idea.

    Knocking on doors is so crucial; help sponsor someone to work in Colorado or Virginia or wherever…. and get out that air mattress for the den/spare room.

  43. dog's eye view

    I guess tomorrow is going to look like Hell Day on Wall Street.

    Great time to break in a small town mayor (without most of the responsibilities) turned governor and an aging senator with often poor judgment who likes gimmicks.


    In Frantic Day, Wall Street Banks Teeter

    In one the most extraordinary days in Wall Street’s history, Merrill Lynch is near an 11th-hour deal with Bank of America to avert a deepening financial crisis while another storied securities firm, Lehman Brothers, hurtled toward liquidation, according to people briefed on the deal.

    The dramatic turn of events was prompted by the cataclysm of losses that has shaken the American financial industry over the last 14 months.

    The moves came after a weekend of frantic negotiations between federal officials and Wall Street executives over how to avert a downward spiral in the markets. Questions still remain about how the market will react and whether other firms may still falter like A.I.G., the large insurer, and Washington Mutual, both of whose stocks fell precipitously last week.

    Coming just a week after the government took control of mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the magnitude of the industry’s reshaping is staggering: two of the most powerful firms on Wall Street, Merrill Lynch and Lehman, will disappear. ….

  44. I tried to post this comment earlier…but Ike was messing with our power……mother nature rules!

    What if ? I’ll tell you what if…..Bill would be out-of line too many times( on tape no doubt) ……Hillary would be trying to keep up with the “new” politics ( but failing) and most importantly the bitteratti would STILL be bitching because Hillary wasn’t at the top of the ticket…..

    It would be hellish to say the least.

    I’m so proud of Obama for NOT picking Hillary….now we just have to deliver the votes!

  45. On a brighter note: I met a lot of great people today at the rally….a couple from California, who honestly looked at me like I was crazy for not being Obama from the get-go, ( but I explained my blindness), a professor from a private Ohio College, a volunteer, and others…..that part was inspiring…..there was a lot of excitement…..diverse crowd- mostly white however…..Zero protesters

    I went alone, it was fun…I usually am never alone…lol

  46. dog's eye view

    Burrito: agree with you on 9:18: Hillary would not be doing any better on top of the ticket; maybe minimally as VP (reassurance to older voters and women who vote their gender).

    And GOP would be flaying Obama for having to go with Hillary — what a sign of weakness. Maybe they would have pulled out Palin too — a gimmick is a gimmick.

  47. dog's eye view

    You knew I liked Andrew Sullivan. He delivers again today. re Palin selection:

    …I’m afraid I cannot join in. In fact I cannot say anything about this candidacy that takes it in any way seriously. It is a farce. It is absurd. It is an insult to all intelligent people. It is a sign of a candidate who has lost his mind. There is no way to take the nomination of Palin to be vice-president of the world’s sole superpower – except to treat it as a massive, unforgivable, inexplicable decision by someone who has either gone insane or is managerially unfit to be president of the United States. When, at some point, the hysteria dies down, even her supporters will realise that, by this decision, McCain has rendered himself unfit to run a branch of Starbucks, let alone the White House. …


    includes link to his Sunday Times lengthier article

  48. very nice….he says it…just like we want to but better…. 🙂

    take a peek at the new icon….I hope it shows up…. 😀

  49. okay ——it so small no one can tell what it is…it a polar bear in the Obama logo

  50. are you talking about your avitar UB?

  51. you know I do not know how to change the one when I am not logged into word press…..

  52. Rezdog

    btw UB,
    Did you catch the comment that Animal Control is the poster that got in trouble several months ago(nick) I think they’re right. AC and Chloe are always kissing ass just like nick and her did.

  53. it’s not too important….i won’t lose any sleep over this

  54. Actually Rez, I did not……..however, nothing would surprise me at this point.

    : )

  55. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/us/politics/15cnd-campaign.html?em

    In August, Obama Raised $66 Million

    Mr. Obama’s previous monthly fund-raising record of $55 million came in February; McCain’s best month was August, with $47 million.

  56. go to wordpress.com, log in, click on “My Account) upper left corner, then click on Edit Profile.

  57. chefsheila

    Just goes ta show ya how many of us little people are freaked and scared that this will continue. Enough to put all the rest of our paychecks and pennies toward the effort.

  58. It’s ok Brian, I mean for when I am not logged into wordpress……..I’ll get it , when I try harder……we don’t want to tech issue (bore) anyone to a low death….lol

  59. It’s ok Brian, I mean for when I am not logged into word press……..I’ll get it , when I try harder……we don’t want to tech issue (bore) anyone to a low death….lol

  60. you bet Shelia!!…..this is the first time I have ever donated, hard cold cash, in my life to politics….and you know what????

    I’d give more if I was allowed.

  61. chefsheila

    Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  62. donate in your children’s name UB!

  63. ok – way to break my bank – can I also donate in my pets names? …I have 4 of those….

    I wonder if they would question a donation from Batman?….lol

  64. Sure, you can even donate in my pets’ name!

  65. Side note: Meg Ryan was on Letterman last night, and we were talking about how she looked and how she laughs….and we think she is absolutely perfect for the part of the Joker…in the next Batman film……. perfect twist to make joker a woman….allows no comparison to Heath…who was excellent in the role.

    When ever I think of him I get sad, he was just so damn good.

  66. I don’t have that kind of money….silly…..

  67. My only concern if it she didn’t get the role would the Ryanista threaten to go to another movie?

  68. I’ll buy your pets presents (you know , like a dried pig ear or something) before I ever would donate their trust funds to politicians…..I have my limits 😀

    Animals can’t vote.

    I had no idea there were Ryanista, but now that you mention it…..

  69. chefsheila

    Is Meg too botox’d? I ‘mean she was getting bad a couple of years ago.

  70. chefsheila

    Prisilla Presley would make a good joker.

  71. yeah , I don’t think she could even really do a film without Hanks in it, and those are all so sappy…imo

    Hanks would have to be some lonely shop owner….that had a sick crush on the evil joker….

  72. chefsheila

    He could “Little Shop Boy”

  73. we need to find a joker…..Priscilla , hmm…. I’d have to look at her smile….can she act?

    as if I am making this decision

  74. lol of coarse – little shop boy – perfect

  75. chefsheila

    I haven’t seen her smile properly since she became Tiger woman II

    I’m sure the Plastic Surgeon could lock it into place. 🙂

  76. chefsheila

    Here’s a picture and its even worse since this one.

  77. I think they would have to compete for the roll…..on TV with judges….in full costume….lol

  78. role—- i know it’s late….

    you know – tomorrow is monday…..I have fallen off my diet wagon….so that stinks…..all started with the drive to NYC…..yep….and the best Mexican food ever in Brooklyn…..
    it’s like I am on rewind…..but I am ready again.

    Have a great night buttercups……the sun will come up tomorrow….as promised.

    peace~ some of us still believe

  79. chefsheila

    LOL Bad news for both of them.

    Have a great evening and get back on the wagon or you will regret it. I did and now I have to start all over again. ;0)

  80. dog's eye view

    WSJ on McCain’s statements on Palin earmarks: “Palin’s Projects List Totals $453 Million”:

    “Last week, Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain said his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, hadn’t sought earmarks or special-interest spending from Congress, presenting her as a fiscal conservative. But state records show Gov. Palin has asked U.S. taxpayers to fund $453 million in specific Alaska projects over the past two years.

    These projects include more than $130 million in federal funds that would benefit Alaska’s fishing industry and an additional $9 million to help Alaska oil companies. She also has sought $4.5 million to upgrade an airport on a Bering Sea island that has a year-round population of less than 100.

    During an appearance Friday on ABC’s “The View,” Sen. McCain said Gov. Palin shared his views, and hasn’t sought congressional earmarks. “Not as governor she hasn’t,” he said.

    In fact, in the current fiscal year, she is seeking $197 million for 31 projects, the records show. In the prior year, her first year in office, she sought $256 million for dozens more projects ranging from research on rockfish and harbor-seal genetics to rural sanitation and obesity prevention. By comparison, her predecessor, Gov. Frank Murkowski, sought more than $350 million in his last year in office.

    The McCain campaign said Sunday that Gov. Palin’s overall record is one of fiscal discipline. “Her record is cutting the number of earmark requests from the previous administration sizably,” said McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds, and she has vetoed wasteful state spending.

    As for Sen. McCain’s televised comments on Friday, Mr. Bounds added, “If he gave viewers a mistaken impression, it certainly wasn’t intentional.”

    It is difficult to compare Sen. Obama’s earmark record with Gov. Palin’s — their states differ in size, for instance, and the two candidates play different roles in the process. But using the same calculation that the McCain campaign uses, the total amount of earmarked dollars divided by the number of working days while each held office (assuming a five-day workweek, every week, for both), Gov. Palin sought $980,000 per workday, compared with roughly $893,000 for Sen. Obama.”



    Appears the WSJ has just called McCain and Palin liars. And pointed out that, dollar for dollar, Obama requested less earmarks. Inconvenient facts.

  81. Clinton Campaigns for Obama in Ohio

    “While supporters here were mixed about whether Clinton should directly assail Palin’s views on issues that impact women, they were universally adamant that no Clinton supporter would ever support Palin.”


  82. “The culture war: It’s back!

    Democrats may have thought that the disastrous Bush years killed the GOP’s favorite tactic. The Palin effect shows they were wrong. ”

    “The culture war is driven by resentment, on the one hand, and crude identification, on the other. Resentment of “elites,” “Washington insiders” and overeducated coastal snobs goes hand in hand with an unreflective, emotional identification with candidates who “are just like me.” ”


  83. dog's eye view

    yippee. Excellent and hard-hitting new Obama ad (PS: I like how he puts his “I approved this message” at the front of his ads):

    “Honor.” On McCain is running a shabby campaign based on deception.


  84. dog's eye view

    Burrito: when I see the faces of the fallen American soldiers from Iraq I think they look just like the folks from my community (albeit shorter hair) and their parents and families look just like mine would, when grief-stricken at a gravesite and receiving a folded flag, with dignity.

    Maybe these mythical middle American cultural warmeisters should think on that.

  85. key words…..”should think ” 🙂 not sure if that will happen, I am hoping that the voter registration in Ohio will accomplish what it takes for a Barack/Biden win…

    The others (repugs) that historically always show up, have been registered for years.

  86. horsedooty

    here is a post from the Dallas Morning News today:

    The Republican vice presidential nominee has said that her state produces 20 percent of U.S. energy. FactCheck.org says that’s not even close — it produces about 14 percent of domestic oil, 3.5 percent of all domestic energy, and 2.4 percent of what the country consumed.

    Some other fact checks of note on Ms. Palin’s words today:

    FactCheck.org says Ms. Palin may have stretched the facts when she suggested that many vice presidents probably never met with heads of state before taking office. But at least the last seven had extensive foreign policy experience.

    Also, McClatchy notes that she seemed to suggest that Iraqis had been involved with the Sept. 11 attacks, but that’s not the case, according to all official investigations of the attacks.

  87. dnd

    Mike Lupica and Palin’s free ride:

    “She’s a spunky mom, she has a son who’s a soldier, she loves guns and hates Roe vs. Wade, and don’t worry about the rest of it. ”


  88. horsedooty

    won’t Imus go nuts when his friend writes something like this?

  89. dnd

    Colorado campaign stops. Since CO is a swing state, there will probably be several more.

    You can watch Palin’s rally on:


    Palin’s speech is suppose to start at 9am MDT.

    Obama’s at 11 and 4:30. And Obama tomorrow at 9:30 (I think).

    They will also stream them on 9news.

  90. Biden is scheduled to make an important speech today, heads up everyone!

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