The Minimum wage

The latest gripe about President Obama’s “lawless” presidency is his executive order to raise the minimum wage for federal contractors.  The argument on the right against raising the minimum wage is that it will kill jobs and that the only people earning the minimum wage are teens entering the work force.  The argument on the left is that if you don’t pay adults a living wage they will require government services, e.g., food stamps, Medicaid,  subsidized housing, etc.

The “killing jobs” argument has no verifiable evidence.  It’s pretty simple to figure out why.  If you pay the minimum wage and your competition pays the minimum wage, you’re all in the same boat.  The notion that teens entering the work force make the minimum wage has two flaws.  First, are teens second class citizens?  This is why we have child labor laws.  Second, these days a lot of minimum wage earners are adults trying to make a living.

If the right’s hatred of government “entitlement” programs is to be believed, why would they support wages that require people to depend on these programs to survive?  We are essentially giving businesses that pay the minimum wage a subsidy.

And the bottom line in this emotional debate is that so few actually pay the minimum wage it would have essentially no impact on the economy.

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46 Comments

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46 responses to “The Minimum wage

  1. tempebev

    Everyone who currently receiving the minimum wage deserves an increase for a living wage. However, the many arguments don’t hold water. We all know if people received a raise in the minimum wage that the world would implode, the seas would rise, marijuana and same sex marriage would be trashed, and we would never have another President of color.

  2. I’m snug as a bug in a rug, working from home, eating corned beef and cabage!

    • dnd

      Brian,
      If you’re eating corned beef and cabbage, I can understand why Ralphie would rather be outside in the weather he hates 😉

  3. Ralphie is not so thrilled with the weather, he hates the snow!

  4. Is this a problem for you d? I’ve heard Beano is helpful.
    http://www.beanogas.com/

  5. Anonymous

    Happy Valentine’s to all of you.

    Perhaps the members of congress should eat some corned beef and cabbage and some HOT AZ or NM chili and be forced to stay in the same room until they actually get something done besides farting and fighting for the bathroom.

    • dnd

      We’re going totally off the rails here, but farting is something everybody likes to do. Other people’s farts are another story…

  6. tempebev

    Anonymous was me

  7. tempebev

    That’s what I meant – a whole room full might make them get something done.

  8. Mistrial on First-Degree Murder Charge as Jury Reaches Partial Verdict in Florida Killing

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/us/florida-killing-over-loud-music.html?emc=edit_na_20140215&_r=0

    A bitter sweet victory

  9. tempebev

    It’s more than bitter sweet – it’s becoming common in Florida

  10. I’m grateful that Dunn will never be free but justice was not served here.

    • dnd

      I think this shows two things about Florida. First the “stand your ground” law is BS. Second the prosecutorial team needs to be fired.
      It was obvious that the charge of first degree murder couldn’t be proved. Second degree would be a lock.

      In any event Dunn’s chances for appeal with the mistrial are gone, and he’ll be spending the rest of his life in prison.

  11. That stand your ground law is nothing more than a free pass to commit murder. However I disagree with you regarding the first degree murder charge, he committed first degree and needs to found guilty of first degree murder. Let’s hope that the next jury has more common sense when he is re-tried for the murder charge.

  12. Happy President’s Day. It’s a white one here in Northern Virginia, residual snow and bright sunshine.

    Neighborhood kids went to school today. Too much missed school this year. Holiday cancelled.

    Agree that Stand Your Ground has devolved into a license to kill. It needs to go. It’s not making Floridians or anyone down there safer.

    I hope Michael Dunn spends decade after decade in prison. He took a teenager’s life. Willfully. I hope they retry him, even though he’s already prison-bound.

  13. tempebev

    Jon Stewart had a great clip on this subject.

  14. tempebev

    Arizona is about to gain it’s second BIG BLACK EYE! The first was the big about immigration.

    “The Arizona Legislature has passed a controversial religion bill that is again thrusting Arizona into the national spotlight in a debate over discrimination. House Bill 2153, written by the conservative advocacy group Center for Arizona Policy and the Christian legal organization Alliance Defending Freedom, would allow individuals to use religious beliefs as a defense against a lawsuit.” AZ Republic 2/21/14

    If Gov. Jan has the guts to veto this she may leave a decent legacy when her term ends this year. Unless she petitions somebody to run for a third term. (minute possibility). This state is beyond embarrassing.

    • dnd

      Bev,
      Not sure this is constitutional. If it passes it will surely go to the supremes. So the whole thing may backfire in AZ and set a precedent for all states.

  15. At least you don’t have Senator Sarah Palin. There is that.

  16. tempebev

    Dog, that is a bright spot to be thankful for. Thanks for giving me a smile.

  17. Agreed, Bev this will never past muster with the feds. What these right wing christian nut jobs always fail to realize is that the religious issues is a two way street. If you fall their argument to it’s natural conclusion things like honor killings would be legal.

    D i like cats, used to have many, Ralphie loves cats and he’s spending too much time alone for my comfort.

  18. His name is Elvis, he’s 10 years old, was a cat an outdoor cat who until recently had never been fixed, now he’s an indoor cat and they told me at the shelter his transition was a little rocky. He also had a chronically infected tail which was amputated about 6 weeks ago. I just this pic a few moments ago, this is the closest he’s let Ralphie to him so far but I think it’s a very hopeful pic!

    • dnd

      Elvis looks pretty good for a 10 year old cat. When you say the transition was a little rocky did you mean from not being fixed to being fixed?

  19. Elvis and Ralphie look happy. How nice to have a pet family to come home to. How is Elvis’s balance, being recently tail-less?

  20. from being an outdoor to an indoor cat, at least that’s what the old ladies at the shelter told me. I don’t think his tail is much of an issue dog, getting used to Ralph is another story.

  21. tempebev

    And if the LGBT population doesn’t have it bad enough in AZ, even US citizens moving to AZ who try to get a driver’s license, can’t use their current D. L. as proof of citizenship, thanks to the Gov.

    “Judge tells Brewer to turn over license files
    By Daniel González and Yvonne Wingett Sanchez
    The Republic | azcentral.com
    Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:01 PM
    “John Roberts, a retired postal worker from Topeka, tried to use his Kansas driver’s license to apply for an Arizona driver’s license after relocating to Waddell, a community west of Phoenix.
    I was told, ‘We don’t accept driver’s licenses from other states,’ ” Roberts said. “I said, ‘What?’ ”
    Roberts is one of thousands of U.S. citizens and legal immigrants who have been affected by the unforeseen consequences of a 2012 executive order by Gov. Jan Brewer aimed at keeping young undocumented immigrants from getting licenses.
    Brewer issued the order in 2012 in response to President Barack Obama’s deferred-action program. It allows young undocumented immigrants who were brought to the U.S. as children — those known as “dreamers” — to obtain work permits and remain in the country for up to two years without fear of deportation.”

    The License Dept finally accepted a 40-year old out-of-date passport as proof.
    http://www.azcentral.com//news/politics/articles/20140221dreamer-license-ban-affects-citizens.html?source=nletter-

  22. Bev: someone on Balloon Juice called Arizona a “walk-over state” for illegal immigrants. Had to laugh. Although not funny for its residents.

    Thinking ahead is not a big feature of those who legislate stuff like the out of state driver’s license ban. How draconian.

  23. Virginia’s Department of Motor Vehicles is connected electronically to many other states’ databases of birth certificates. Learned that when helping my mom get a state identification document last year. (She no longer drives, has NO unexpired ID save her Medicare card. I’d realized she would not be able to get on an airplane, should the occasion ever arise, with the documents in hand.)

    Her birth state’s electronic records, though, fell a few years short for Mom’s purpose. That said, the DMV manager could see Mom had had driver’s license after license, at the same address and with the same face, for years. So they issued Mom’s state ID card.

    I wonder how much discretion Arizona gives its state employees. Yuh.

  24. tempebev

    The Veto 1062 is getting hot here. Apple, Amer. Airlines, our 2 senators and many, many more are asking Jan B. to veto this stupid bill. Just returning from DC from the gov’s conference, she has to read the bill, talk to people etc. The damage to the state has already been done and will continue until she get’s her head out of the sand and realizes this is really hurting the star. If she signs it, the big whoosh sound will be when the NFL pulls the 2015 Super Bowl. If you want to see something really funny, find the Anderson Cooper 360 from Monday night. He has a great piece and an interview with a gentleman from the state senate who is running for Gov and voted yes for 1062. He doesn’t realize that AC is intelligent and asks probing questions. He’s toast!

  25. This story is getting a lot of coverage bev and seems to really be getting people out on the streets, this may turn into a good thing!

    • dnd

      Since Brewer is term limited, there’s no political benefit for her to veto or not veto. There’s only her legacy. And if she didn’t veto and the Superbowl got moved, we all know what her legacy would be in AZ. It’s a business decision for her, not a moral one.

      The question everybody’s asking is what’s taking her so long to make a decision. That’s pretty obvious. This is her last 15 minutes of fame and she wants to hang on to it as long as she can.

  26. Bev: Arizona’s legislatin’ makes the news in DC. Just up on Washington Post website: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-resident-tsa-agent-questions-if-dc-license-legal-for-airline-flight-boarding/2014/02/26/b0855538-9e77-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

    Ashley Brandt was all smiles last week when she went to board a flight home after a belated birthday trip to the Grand Canyon.

    Then, standing in an airport security line in Phoenix, her jaw dropped.

    According to Brandt, an agent with the Transportation Security Administration took a look at her D.C. license and began to shake her head. “I don’t know if we can accept these,” Brandt recalled the agent saying. “Do you have a U.S. passport?’

    … the implication from the TSA agent seemed clear to Brandt: The District is not a state; TSA requires a state-issued ID to board a plane.

    …. Brandt says the agent yelled out to a supervisor, working in adjacent security line. Are D.C. licenses valid identification?

    Brandt says she could hear the response, “Yeah, we accept those.”

    “She didn’t seem to know that it was basically the same as a state ID,” said Brandt, who had only recently traded her Maryland ID for one from the District. “D.C. is obviously not a state, but I didn’t ever imagine it would be a problem — I mean, the whole population of D.C. has to use these.”

    … But flabbergasted by the experience, Brandt’s boyfriend, Alan Chewning, who had passed security without an incident in another line, fired off a tweet:

    “Holy. [Expletive]. TSA @ PHX asked for gf’s passport because her valid DC license deemed invalid b/c ‘DC not a state.’ ”

    By the time the two landed, the tweet had gone viral, and stories were flooding in of residents recounting similar horror stories of trying to board a flight with a license from Guam or Puerto Rico.

  27. The confluence of badly, broadly written laws and clueless TSA agents.

    What could go wrong?

  28. tempebev

    The AZ story is in The Guardian, BBC, etc.
    This is great:
    Arizona Confronting Awkward Realization That Gay People Have Money, Buy Stuff

    “Quite frankly, we were blindsided by this. We had no idea that gays had money and bought things.”
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/arizona-confronting-awkward-realization-that-gay-people-have-money-buy-stuff.html

    Congratulations to the judges who ruled in Texas.

  29. Major League Baseball has no come out against the bill, their is a similar bill pending here in GA. We’re turning some serious corners here. Bev while I understand your frustration with what’s going on in your state there sure is a lot to celebrate here!

    • dnd

      Brian,
      MLB has come out (so to speak;-)) against the bill. They just built a huge complex in Scottsdale for spring training. A boycott could cost the local economy gagillions.

  30. Brewer to speak at 7:45 EST tonight

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